the need to change greening - Now: How to keep new players

[Nude For Satan]

If you intend to encourage OR force newbs into a learning arena (or perhaps have a map split into two sections), it would need to be surrounded in terminology that negated stigma. Few newbs would feel overly heartened by parading around in something that ended up being referred to as the "retard arena" or so forth. You know it would happen, and they don't make thick skins too much anymore.



Also, be careful of people trolling public chat with lies, damn lies and statistics, too. A day ago a respected veteran was announcing how depleted his newly spawned ship was, over and over ("1400 and 0 reps wtf", etc), so I went for a quick spec, and saw 1699 & 3 reps <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' /> ... cheeky bugger <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />

[PlayWolf]

I like how my first zone was T3g, but I moved on to DS because when I started it was the first zone on the list. I learned ropes, got a tad bet better, became a vet <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> there. Now DS is gone. So many zones I've been to and learned. People did help me learn, and I don't mind helping out new players that come to a zone now and then.



Sadly now and then, it'd be a troll that acts like a new player..



Trench Wars and Extreme Games, which both have a high population do attract new players. People moving on with their life is also a cause.. bored of SubSpace.. or just flat out quit.



I play in HS and most of the time I do tend to help out new players.. unless it's one of them cretins that come in the zone to just troll, which is usually obvious to me.



Nude, yea that is a funny problem as well.



Most of the time, it's just them butt-hurt vets that only grind newly fresh players for easy kills, when at most they should be encouraging the new players instead of boring them out of the zone. ):



Nothing really statistic..

[Jazz]

I agree with both of his points.

I never thought ppl were sitting in Spec because they were afraid of taking someone on due to a lack of 'bty/green'.

Greening isnt a major problem, and a 50bty ship can still take out one with 1000bty <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />



Also, i really like the idea of having full energy at least <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yahoo.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' /> THATS the biggest pain in the ass And 1 starting rep would be cool too <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />





[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1300428759' post='273701']

Its a fair point. Are you suggesting that when we spawn, bullet level, bomb level, maximum energy level, bouncing bullets and multifire are all at full/available by default? Or perhaps those plus antiwarp, x-radar, and (if spider) cloak? Based on the argument of low population, I see what you're getting at, though I would still be surprised if folks are actually sitting in spec because of it. Sitting in spec 'cause there isn't anyone of value in play to fight, maybe, but not because greening takes more legwork. I could be wrong though *shrug*, I usually am.



I'd personally like to see 1 rep awarded upon spawning by default, but that's just me.

[/quote]







[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1300407445' post='273688']

What are the settings still left that aren't necessarily 100% upon spawning?



From memory its bullet level, bomb level, maximum energy level, antiwarp, x-radar, bouncing bullets, multifire, and (if spider) cloak.



The ?status settings (rotation, recharge, speed, umm can't remember, think there's more, oh shrapnel) are already beefed up to be automatically 100% upon spawn.



In my opinion, greening is fairly quick. In a low population there's little threat to safety while greening. If pop is higher then there's more chance of having a co-greener. Also, though I could be wrong, there also seem to be more greens. The range is definitely wider when pop is higher.



You don't have to green everything attribute to full, either. Its challenging but entertaining to engage with only red bombs. Red (and to some extent yellow) bullets are not only a fun challenge, but are often viewed so endearingly that people express annoyance publicly when they lose them to blues.



Maximum Energy Level is probably the only one of all those non-100% attributes with which I'd think of agreeing with you. 1500 or 1600 max is doable, but its the 1100s through 1300s are pretty frustrating!



Its never crossed my mind that a player in spec is there because they are afraid to green. I guess that's the "now" generation.

[/quote]

[hallucination]

[size="2"][color="#353535"][color="#353535"]I wanted to highlight what some of those outside the game think of our little game of spaceships. CNET gave a 3 star (of 5) review a couple of years ago. [url="http://download.cnet.com/Continuum/3000-7440_4-10261821.html"]http://download.cnet...4-10261821.html[/url][/color][/color][/size]

[size="2"][color="#353535"][color="#353535"]The text of the review has nothing that would entice anyone to play imo (except the fact that it's free). Some quotes from the review:[/color]

[quote [color="#000000"]name[/color]='CNET review']

[/color][/size][size="2"][color="#353535"][color="#353535"]...[/color]fiendishly difficult online space shooter...

...

[color="#353535"]Newbies beware: zero-gravity physics, nonconfigurable controls, and merciless veteran players make Continuum's learning curve very steep. [/color]

[color="#353535"]...[/color]

[color="#353535"]We wanted to enjoy Continuum, but frankly we found the whole experience more frustrating than fun.[/color]

[/quote][/color][/size]



[color="#353535"][size="2"]And here's a user review from someone who tried it:

[quote [color="#000000"]name[/color]='CNET user review'][left]-2d(!!) -slightly addictive -only fun for the veterans of game[/left]



[color="#171717"]by [url="http://download.cnet.com/community/Yhcilc"]Yhcilc[/url] on June 5, 2006[/color]



Pros: several servers, many different games



[left]Cons: Especially on SSCU Trenchwars mostly very bad staff some people can get banned for nothing. Only for leet people, for the others who will be getting smashed down in pubs and the other arena's no fun.[/left]

[left]People calling eachother 'ez', 'newb','nerd' etc every few seconds.[/left][/quote]

[/size][/color][color="#353535"]Now clearly the CNET ppl didn't try for very long, but they spell out in clear terms why they gave up. Newbs need to get some kills. The [/color][color="#353535"]difference in [/color][color="#353535"]skill levels was clear to these people, but they did not see any fun in trying to climb up that learning curve. We need to give new(er) players a place where they can have fun (kill something) without getting squashed like a bug and then trash talked.[/color]



[color="#353535"][color="#1C2837"][size="2"][quote name='nude for satan']need to be surrounded in terminology that negated stigma[/quote][/size][/color][/color]

[color="#353535"][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Newbs won't know they're in newb land and won't care if they have some fun. By the time they figure out they're only playing other newbs, they are ready to move up a notch. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />[/size][/color][/color]



[size="2"][color="#1C2837"][quote name='yupa'][/color][/size][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Are we talking about the same game, the same zone? A game where EG and TW exist? [/size][/color][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]A zone where chirp flew a lancaster back and forth in a tube all day long holding down the TAB button?[/quote][/size][/color]

[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]No, it's not the same -- now there are only "[/size][/color][color="#353535"][size="2"]merciless veteran players"[/size][/color][color="#1C2837"][size="2"] in all of the zones, and that's a problem. [/size][/color]



[color="#353535"]--hallu[/color]

[Jazz]

We were discussing in the zone earlier that it might be a good idea to try variable spawn bounty. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />



Based on USAGE info, regs could start with their current 50bty, and new players could begin with a full status ship and perhaps random amount of specials. As they put the time in to learn, then their spawn bty can go down till it eventually reaches the same 50bty as the regs.





I realize some ppl will create new names just to get this benefit, but if the advantage decreases based on maybe amount of time, or kill:death ratio, etc then i dont think it would affect others too much. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' />

In addition, im pretty sure most regs with a newly spawned 50bty ship can either hold their own, or get away from OTHER regs even if they have 1000bty, so the DISadvantage to a regular doesnt seem to be too daunting. While at the same time, a new player isnt stuck facing a reg with a seriously underpowered ship (and not really knowing the difference <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> )

[Ethylene!]

My favorite part of one of the reviews was that Trench Wars was for the "leet" players. If this review reflects the overall opinion of players trying out new zones, then no one will ever stay in Chaos Zone.



I realized today how to get new players in Chaos Zone and how to keep them...you can't. How many of you play Donkey Kong, Tempest, <insert your favorite game here> these days? Sure you might find some online game that is similar and play for an afternoon and then you soon forget about it. Same with Chaos Zone, it's an old game that people don't want to play anymore except for mostly the diehard veterans who you will lose if you make too many changes and Chaos is no longer "Chaos" as we know it. I for one don't want to see the zone die off (which we have been hearing for years now and at least hasn't completely happend yet) and would love to see 100+ players again, but as I mentioned above, it's a sign of the times and things change and fade away. A newbie arena would bring in minimal players if any. Very few, if any, newbies will want to spend the time to learn the game, there are too many quick simple games elsewhere to waste time, not to mention spending hours on chat roulette trying to get some Russian whore to show you her tits. Not trying to be overly negative here (yeah I'm sure you all believe me) but all this talk about how to get more players in a 13 year old game is like listening to grandpa talking about the days of 10 cent hamburgers and how he wishes it was still like that but knowing it will never happen.

[Caerbannog]

[quote name='Ethylene!' timestamp='1300939707' post='273955']

My favorite part of one of the reviews was that Trench Wars was for the "leet" players. If this review reflects the overall opinion of players trying out new zones, then no one will ever stay in Chaos Zone.



I realized today how to get new players in Chaos Zone and how to keep them...you can't. How many of you play Donkey Kong, Tempest, <insert your favorite game here> these days? Sure you might find some online game that is similar and play for an afternoon and then you soon forget about it. Same with Chaos Zone, it's an old game that people don't want to play anymore except for mostly the diehard veterans who you will lose if you make too many changes and Chaos is no longer "Chaos" as we know it. I for one don't want to see the zone die off (which we have been hearing for years now and at least hasn't completely happend yet) and would love to see 100+ players again, but as I mentioned above, it's a sign of the times and things change and fade away. A newbie arena would bring in minimal players if any. Very few, if any, newbies will want to spend the time to learn the game, there are too many quick simple games elsewhere to waste time, not to mention spending hours on chat roulette trying to get some Russian whore to show you her tits. Not trying to be overly negative here (yeah I'm sure you all believe me) but all this talk about how to get more players in a 13 year old game is like listening to grandpa talking about the days of 10 cent hamburgers and how he wishes it was still like that but knowing it will never happen.

[/quote]



Newbies. Don't they know that the people in chaos zone could link them to russian tits way faster than they'd accomplish this feature while browsing through all the dicks (or so I head) on chatroulette.



The people on CNET from Hallu's post cannot be very smart, if they could not find the place to remap your keys.

[Jazz]

This game is FREE <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pardon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' />

<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drinks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':nea:' />



There may be better graphics multiplayer online games out there, and they may be easier to jump into. But even THEY require a learning curve .... and you still go through a period where there are more 'experienced newbs' who still kill you <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blum.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> In addition, since its an old game, it doesnt require much to be able to play it <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />

If the environment is good, ppl MIGHT stay longer .... and then they MIGHT get hooked too <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='8)' />

[RenderGod]

[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1300670191' post='273805']

If you intend to encourage OR force newbs into a learning arena (or perhaps have a map split into two sections), it would need to be surrounded in terminology that negated stigma. Few newbs would feel overly heartened by parading around in something that ended up being referred to as the "retard arena" or so forth. You know it would happen, and they don't make thick skins too much anymore.



Also, be careful of people trolling public chat with lies, damn lies and statistics, too. A day ago a respected veteran was announcing how depleted his newly spawned ship was, over and over ("1400 and 0 reps wtf", etc), so I went for a quick spec, and saw 1699 & 3 reps <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' /> ... cheeky bugger <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' />

[/quote]







Ummmm Nice! You went to spec and saw me with a full ship AFTER I SC about 3 or 4 times to get more than 1300 nrg and a REP. Awesome you call me a liar not watching what I was doing for more than a couple minutes. AND as I said in pub I was telling the Recording Text Bot what each new spawned ship was.



You're gonna get negged all reset bitch > : )

[Nude For Satan]

How do you know I was talking about you? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />



Well ... I was <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> but I wasn't gonna name the culprit ... oh well!

Quote:You're gonna get negged all reset bitch > : )

Tell me something I don't know <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' />

[Camel]

Here's a good example, posted a few days ago on a game developers "club": [url="http://uwgamedev.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/glorious-discussions-concerning-interactive-entertainment-subspace-continuum/#comments"]CLICK[/url]



"Just in case all of the non-fun artsy games we’ve discussed this term have got you down, just in case you’re tired of games without real gameplay, we’ll be doing something completely different for the next GDCIE, which will be Tuesday March 29, 2011 at 6:00pm in MC 4059. This will be the last GDCIE of the term and we’ll be discussing: SubSpace Continuum"



Then he says: "If you’re interested in checking it out on your own it has been recommended that you try the Extreme Games or the Trench Wars servers, both of which have a reasonably large player base."



Ouch. This is where it hurts, this is our main problem having no influx of new players.



Now lets act, and make these guys play the game new players should! Maybe we are talking about 20 students here?



"We’ll plan to play together Saturday March 26 and Sunday March 27 from 7:00pm onward. Server details will be announced later."



They should also get a warm invitation at our place!

[Jazz]

[quote name='Camel' timestamp='1301080540' post='274021']

Here's a good example, posted a few days ago on a game developers "club": [url="http://uwgamedev.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/glorious-discussions-concerning-interactive-entertainment-subspace-continuum/#comments"]CLICK[/url]



"Just in case all of the non-fun artsy games we’ve discussed this term have got you down, just in case you’re tired of games without real gameplay, we’ll be doing something completely different for the next GDCIE, which will be Tuesday March 29, 2011 at 6:00pm in MC 4059. This will be the last GDCIE of the term and we’ll be discussing: SubSpace Continuum"



Then he says: "If you’re interested in checking it out on your own it has been recommended that you try the Extreme Games or the Trench Wars servers, both of which have a reasonably large player base."



Ouch. This is where it hurts, this is our main problem having no influx of new players.



Now lets act, and make these guys play the game new players should! Maybe we are talking about 20 students here?



"We’ll plan to play together Saturday March 26 and Sunday March 27 from 7:00pm onward. Server details will be announced later."



They should also get a warm invitation at our place!

[/quote]





i only saw this post now .... but were any of these folks around at all in chaos ? did anyone chat with any of them ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Nude For Satan]

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301336746' post='274118']i only saw this post now .... but were any of these folks around at all in chaos ? did anyone chat with any of them ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]



Didn't notice any myself, but I don't talk much in-game so wouldn't know.

[hallucination]

I went to the zone they setup for themselves for about a half hour and talked to them and played with them some. There were only two... Told them to come by any time and I'd help them get started. Maybe some will come by on Tuesday night...?



--hallu

[Ethylene!]

[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301369299' post='274134']

I went to the zone they setup for themselves for about a half hour and talked to them and played with them some. There were only two... Told them to come by any time and I'd help them get started. Maybe some will come by on Tuesday night...?



--hallu

[/quote]



Two players! Our problems are solved!

[AnselAdams]

[quote name='Ethylene!' timestamp='1301390176' post='274140']

Two players! Our problems are solved!

[/quote]



Your sarcasm is actually pretty funny but try not to sound so defeated. Two is better than none! We're just talking out ideas here. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



I really like Jazz's thought about a sliding scale for greening noobs. How gradual should it be and is that even possible?