Chaos Pub

[NuB KiNG]

We need limit of items per ship and league ship settings

[Ethylene!]

This isn't league, piss off.

[Jazz]

<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diablo.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> Something to at least minimize the "LAME" tactics might be useful in keeping new players, and regulars <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drinks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':drinks:' />







With current spawn bty, 'neg killing' isnt as much of an issue. But now you have things such as ppl employing mine reps (sometimes from cloakers, and even from turrets such as Gadianthon), vulching and running away, purchasing bonus boosters/reps/etc , etc .........





Im not really a big fan of turrets to begin with. And its even worse now when the zone is so small. Sometimes when theres a temporary increase in numbers, you can end up with a 4-person turret, and then when ppl start leaving the freq size is adjusted, but the turret could still have 4 ppl on it till they leave. When i see that situation, i cant even be bothered to unspec. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nea.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':nea:' />





I like having the multiple flags in the zone too. It adds extra goals and a way to gain points. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dirol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='8)' />

I also like those few times when the MULTIPLE flags gave you a level-up for guns ONLY <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yahoo.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' /> . A single flag with level-up wouldnt be bad if it didnt end up on a turret. But multiple flags with level-up is a big red target that will be chased by groups of people (so it can still be handled), the flagger has the ability to hold them off with l4 guns, AND even a turret with l4 guns can still be gunned down by chasers with l4 guns <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' /> . And a turret isnt going to last HOURS at a time even if they run around the periphery because where they once wouldve come CLOSE to dying but repel and rocket away, now they may not get away <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />





Too many times, we hear the reason why something isnt being changed is "its always been part of the game". Well, if noones playing anyway, then whats the point ? Maybe its time to think about a change that brings new balance <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />

[Nude For Satan]

Quote:Something to at least minimize the "LAME" tactics might be useful in keeping new players, and regulars

Agree. But the question is: what?

Quote:With current spawn bty, 'neg killing' isnt as much of an issue. But now you have things such as ppl employing mine reps (sometimes from cloakers, and even from turrets such as Gadianthon), vulching and running away, purchasing bonus boosters/reps/etc, etc .........

- This is, as you allude to later, "a part of the game". What's a tougher issue for us these days is that, with lower population, these tactics are safer to perpetrate, and potentially more devastating to new player retention. Other elements retain status quo, eg there are less targets for mine repping, and less melee/confusion in which to take advantage of someone's compromised attention, but on the other hand someone flying half the map to get back to a battle that just been killed out of, can still be totally unsuspecting.

- Vulching is a tough call, in an arena that is based on attack everything, its almost a misnomer. Specifically targetting weakened ships and scarpering from anyone at 1699 is of course lame.

- Lobbing, radar bombing, linebombing are generally lame. IMO I consider it lame if its all someone does. If on the other hand they've been fighting honourable for some time, get separated from the duel, then decide to head back to the centre to find targets, then there's no reason why they shouldn't send in a few bombs as a vanguard.

- Purchasing Bonuses (especially boosters, IMO), are of course an angering issue. you can successfully duel every special off an opponent only to have them triple burst you to end your five minutes hard work in a spray of ouch. Bonusing DOES change the playing field, turn the tables. it just DOES.



Overall, these things are totally find for a *chaotic* melee environment. The issues aren't with the use of these tactics as they stand. Nothing is wrong with them. If you were on the Somme I doubt you'd concern yourself too much with "nah that'd be pretty lame". The issues are with using them in an arena that was built for higher populations, where the advantage shifts more towards these lamers. In a high population environment, a chain of blue bombs suddenly hitting a three-frequency duel and exploding everything was as hilarious as it was angering. These days its far less amusing because there's *nothing* out there on the fringes to hold the lobber accountable. They can do it at will with their only fear being of their eyes bleeding from the qq.



So I agree with you, but reserve my opinion to note that its all about the changing environment.



Of course, you're not just presenting an account, you're asking, what can be done? Me too. Well, any major change should be considered separately as there could be a lot of pros and cons that people might want to put forward. One thread each makes more sense to me. There's one adjustment already on the table that i'd just been shouting at people about this morning, so I'll start a new thread for that shortly.

Quote:Im not really a big fan of turrets to begin with. And its even worse now when the zone is so small. Sometimes when theres a temporary increase in numbers, you can end up with a 4-person turret, and then when ppl start leaving the freq size is adjusted, but the turret could still have 4 ppl on it till they leave. When i see that situation, i cant even be bothered to unspec.

Yes the general advantage turrets have is greater now that the population is lower. It can be pretty silly to turret when there's only two other players in the arena. The issue you mention, of turrets sticking around as people leave and remaining as a 4-person stack against lowering pop with freq size=2 can be a pretty lame personal choice of the turretters.

BUT, what is your suggestion? This has been kicked around many times (I'm just reporting what I've heard, I haven't been in Chaos a long time so I'm not the best source of info) and the different ideas to attend this problem come with issues of their own.

- If you were to forcible split a 4 person freq when the freq size goes down to max, 1. Which one of those players gets changed? How would you elect which player? 2. How can we differentiate between a turret and a general freq? Some poor bastard has worked hard for 2000bty alone, gets joined by others, then freq size goes down and he gets changed off his freq, potentially having his bty reset or spawning on a stack of mines? 3. When do you do this? It would be bot driven, so they could be *about to die* when the bot suddenly respawns them safely on another freq. 4. How do you manage freqent freq size changes? The freq size might JUST go up, you join a freq, the freq size goes down again 2 minutes later (or less!) and you're thrown out?

- Maybe if a player got *killed*, and their freq size was out of synch, that player might lose their spot on the freq? I remember asking this once and there was a reason why it wasn't as simple as it sounded.

- If a player entered safe (or whole turret did, of course), then they might have their freqs changed. Back to the earlier one, who gets changed? Where do they spawn? etc etc Also, what if they were generally afk to go for a leak, then they come back and looks like they've been brickwarped out of safe.



The concepts are there, but this would need a lot more work. Can you see how its just not that simple?

Quote:I like having the multiple flags in the zone too. It adds extra goals and a way to gain points.

I also like those few times when the MULTIPLE flags gave you a level-up for guns ONLY . A single flag with level-up wouldnt be bad if it didnt end up on a turret. But multiple flags with level-up is a big red target that will be chased by groups of people (so it can still be handled), the flagger has the ability to hold them off with l4 guns, AND even a turret with l4 guns can still be gunned down by chasers with l4 guns . And a turret isnt going to last HOURS at a time even if they run around the periphery because where they once wouldve come CLOSE to dying but repel and rocket away, now they may not get away

Flag Game thread <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blum.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />

Quote:Too many times, we hear the reason why something isnt being changed is "its always been part of the game". Well, if noones playing anyway, then whats the point ? Maybe its time to think about a change that brings new balance

Whether changes are made, or are not made, there will be parties that are fer and parties that are agin it. I hear your frustration, but we need to work out not just that "something needs to be done", but also what that something is.



Watch for new threads as I'll try to open up discussion/debate/shitfight about a few of the points you've raised.



btw NuB is clearly trolling, I presume you picked that?

[Jazz]

[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1300925898' post='273945']

Quote:Im not really a big fan of turrets to begin with. And its even worse now when the zone is so small. Sometimes when theres a temporary increase in numbers, you can end up with a 4-person turret, and then when ppl start leaving the freq size is adjusted, but the turret could still have 4 ppl on it till they leave. When i see that situation, i cant even be bothered to unspec.

Yes the general advantage turrets have is greater now that the population is lower. It can be pretty silly to turret when there's only two other players in the arena. The issue you mention, of turrets sticking around as people leave and remaining as a 4-person stack against lowering pop with freq size=2 can be a pretty lame personal choice of the turretters.

BUT, what is your suggestion? This has been kicked around many times (I'm just reporting what I've heard, I haven't been in Chaos a long time so I'm not the best source of info) and the different ideas to attend this problem come with issues of their own.

- If you were to forcible split a 4 person freq when the freq size goes down to max, 1. Which one of those players gets changed? How would you elect which player? 2. How can we differentiate between a turret and a general freq? Some poor bastard has worked hard for 2000bty alone, gets joined by others, then freq size goes down and he gets changed off his freq, potentially having his bty reset or spawning on a stack of mines? 3. When do you do this? It would be bot driven, so they could be *about to die* when the bot suddenly respawns them safely on another freq. 4. How do you manage freqent freq size changes? The freq size might JUST go up, you join a freq, the freq size goes down again 2 minutes later (or less!) and you're thrown out?

- Maybe if a player got *killed*, and their freq size was out of synch, that player might lose their spot on the freq? I remember asking this once and there was a reason why it wasn't as simple as it sounded.

- If a player entered safe (or whole turret did, of course), then they might have their freqs changed. Back to the earlier one, who gets changed? Where do they spawn? etc etc Also, what if they were generally afk to go for a leak, then they come back and looks like they've been brickwarped out of safe.



The concepts are there, but this would need a lot more work. Can you see how its just not that simple?



[/quote]





This thread was just near the top, and eadily available <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='8)' /> Thats all <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':nea:' />



Vulching, line-bombing, radar-bombing, lobbing are annoying, but not a problem. I think those are integral part of the game. And as you mentioned, even a pilot who normally gets in up-close-and-personal will lob a few bombs in as they rush toward an encounter.

And removing those would be impossible anyway. Even mine-repping cant really be 'removed' <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />





As for turreting, i never said anything about removing ppl from a freq when the zone numbers change <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />

My suggestion would be to allow only a 2-person turret (pilot and 1 gunner) <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' />

Noone would need to be removed from a freq. But no matter how many are on a frequency, allow only 1 person to attach at a time in Chaos zone pub. How often are there so many players in the zone to justify a larger turret ?

[Jazz]

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301002028' post='273978']

[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1300925898' post='273945']

Quote:Im not really a big fan of turrets to begin with. And its even worse now when the zone is so small. Sometimes when theres a temporary increase in numbers, you can end up with a 4-person turret, and then when ppl start leaving the freq size is adjusted, but the turret could still have 4 ppl on it till they leave. When i see that situation, i cant even be bothered to unspec.

Yes the general advantage turrets have is greater now that the population is lower. It can be pretty silly to turret when there's only two other players in the arena. The issue you mention, of turrets sticking around as people leave and remaining as a 4-person stack against lowering pop with freq size=2 can be a pretty lame personal choice of the turretters.

BUT, what is your suggestion? This has been kicked around many times (I'm just reporting what I've heard, I haven't been in Chaos a long time so I'm not the best source of info) and the different ideas to attend this problem come with issues of their own.

- If you were to forcible split a 4 person freq when the freq size goes down to max, 1. Which one of those players gets changed? How would you elect which player? 2. How can we differentiate between a turret and a general freq? Some poor bastard has worked hard for 2000bty alone, gets joined by others, then freq size goes down and he gets changed off his freq, potentially having his bty reset or spawning on a stack of mines? 3. When do you do this? It would be bot driven, so they could be *about to die* when the bot suddenly respawns them safely on another freq. 4. How do you manage freqent freq size changes? The freq size might JUST go up, you join a freq, the freq size goes down again 2 minutes later (or less!) and you're thrown out?

- Maybe if a player got *killed*, and their freq size was out of synch, that player might lose their spot on the freq? I remember asking this once and there was a reason why it wasn't as simple as it sounded.

- If a player entered safe (or whole turret did, of course), then they might have their freqs changed. Back to the earlier one, who gets changed? Where do they spawn? etc etc Also, what if they were generally afk to go for a leak, then they come back and looks like they've been brickwarped out of safe.



The concepts are there, but this would need a lot more work. Can you see how its just not that simple?



[/quote]





This thread was just near the top, and eadily available <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Thats all <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Vulching, line-bombing, radar-bombing, lobbing are annoying, but not a problem. I think those are integral part of the game. And as you mentioned, even a pilot who normally gets in up-close-and-personal will lob a few bombs in as they rush toward an encounter.

And removing those would be impossible anyway. Even mine-repping cant really be 'removed' <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />





As for turreting, i never said anything about removing ppl from a freq when the zone numbers change <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

My suggestion would be to allow only a 2-person turret (pilot and 1 gunner) <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />

Noone would need to be removed from a freq. But no matter how many are on a frequency, allow only 1 person to attach at a time in Chaos zone pub. How often are there so many players in the zone to justify a larger turret ?

[/quote]





I was just told by hallu that there will never be any changes made to turrets.

I just left the zone, where there are about 9-10 ppl playing in the zone, and 3 of them are on a turret, while the others are mostly single person pub freqs. Essentially 1/3 of the zone is on a single turret. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' />

Personally, under those conditions, i cant even be bothered to play Chaos. I dont see any fun in it. And this is a daily occurrence.

If there were more people playing, it might be ok. But obviously the whole problem is that there arent <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> So why bother playing just to provide entertainment to the turreters for racking up lame kills in a small zone.

[Nude For Satan]

I'm just putting my own opinion out here, nothing else, but I actually don't mind chasing a three-person turret even when there's only me or one or two other people around in the zone at the time. I do understand, though, you're annoyance with that situation. Not everybody is as happy to go on a 0:100 turret-chasing spree on their own as I am <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ... but ohhh ... 1:100 is friggin SWEET!

[hallucination]

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301369501' post='274135']

I was just told by hallu that there will never be any changes made to turrets.

[/quote]

That's not remotely what I said. You said:



[quote name='Jazz' ]

P Jazz> i think you need to reduce turrets to 2ppl. pilot and 1 gunner

[/quote]

I replied:



[quote name='hallucination ]

P hallucination> not a chance.

P hallucination> chaos has always had large turrets and always will -- they are tons of fun to ride/drive

[/quote]

--hallu

[Ethylene!]

[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301371637' post='274137']

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301369501' post='274135']

I was just told by hallu that there will never be any changes made to turrets.

[/quote]

That's not remotely what I said. You said:



[quote name='Jazz' ]

P Jazz> i think you need to reduce turrets to 2ppl. pilot and 1 gunner

[/quote]

I replied:



[quote name='hallucination ]

P hallucination> not a chance.

P hallucination> chaos has always had large turrets and always will -- they are tons of fun to ride/drive

[/quote]

--hallu

[/quote]



Hallu, what is your opintion on a three man turret when there are 6 people in the zone? Do you think it drives players away? What do you think about newbies joining the zone and being owned by a three man turret when they are on a freq by themselves. Mind you, i am talking about turrets during times of low populations only.

[Jazz]

[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301371637' post='274137']

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301369501' post='274135']

I was just told by hallu that there will never be any changes made to turrets.

[/quote]

That's not remotely what I said. You said:



[quote name='Jazz' ]

P Jazz> i think you need to reduce turrets to 2ppl. pilot and 1 gunner

[/quote]

I replied:



[quote name='hallucination ]

P hallucination> not a chance.

P hallucination> chaos has always had large turrets and always will -- they are tons of fun to ride/drive

[/quote]

--hallu

[/quote]







ok im a bit confused <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />

My apologies if i misqoted, it wasnt intentional. But i didnt keep logs and copy paste our discussion.

I said 'there will never be changes made to turrets. I think you need to reduce turrets to 2 ppl (pilot and 1 gunner)', and you said 'not a chance. chaos has always had large turrets and always will'

Sounds remotely similar to me <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' /> never be changes made to turrets and chaos has always had large turrets and always will





We're not dealing with the same 80-100ppl zones anymore. And probably never will. Incidentally, the original zone never had bonuses, or flags, or any of the other things that were added MUCH later. I wasnt a regular player of chaos, but i dont remember those being part of the zone.



You wanted to hear what i thought, and i told you.

Post the rest of our discussion too if you want. I also asked about when we might see some of these ideas being implemented, and when the announcement would be (after you told me thered be an announcement prior to any changes). I cant remember your exact wording, but you told me not to 'badger' you and i seem to remember some veiled comment along the lines of i might not like the outcome ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> Your post of the logs will clarify if need be <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Youre asking for our feedback and ideas, i dont see why we cant ask about a timeframe. You said it was still undecided and also that any changes will only be made at a reset (which im sure most of us already aware of anyway). Thats fine. But when will there be a decision ?

And its not like anything has to be PERMANENT <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> You can still try out various ideas to see how it goes <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Obviously other changes were tried out to varying degrees of acceptance.

[AnselAdams]

I like driving turrets, riding turrets and chasing turrets. They're generally easily avoidable so even in low populations, you can go about your business with not much to worry about. As hallu says, they're tons of fun.

[hallucination]

[quote name='Ethylene!' timestamp='1301390083' post='274139']

Hallu, what is your opintion on a three man turret when there are 6 people in the zone? Do you think it drives players away? What do you think about newbies joining the zone and being owned by a three man turret when they are on a freq by themselves. Mind you, i am talking about turrets during times of low populations only.

[/quote]

First, spending too much time focusing on very low population problems is not a good use of our time imo. It is better spent focusing on how to increase the population.



Now, on freqsizes, I'll repeat what I've said since Chaos-Bot started controlling them more than 10 yrs ago.



I think players staying for more than a couple of minutes on an X person freq when the freqsize is less than that, are unsportsmanlike -- whether they are turreting or not. It demonstrates they are more concerned with winning rather than playing fairly/on a level playing field. The one situation I can think where it could be justifiable to stay on a higher person freq is if you're in a hotly contested flag game with another freq of the same size (until the game ends) -- that occurrence is quite rare (ever?) since in a hotly contested game the population rarely drops much.



It does appear to drive people away at times, but other times not. A high bty target can draw people in to play.



At least when a newbie gets killed by a several man turret, he can see that it's several people aligned against him with lots of firepower. This is better than getting killed by a mine repper (or worse, a cloaked mine repper) as the newbie will have no idea how/why he died in one shot. A mine repping turret falls into this category.



Things that could be done:

1) Do what we've always done in Chaos to lamers -- call them out publicly for it and hunt them down mercilessly.

2) I have requested and continue to request that vet pilots voluntarily redistribute freqs when they get smaller.

3) Force people off freqs when the freqsize reduces. I've never liked this as a solution because it is going to make people mad and they will leave (in addition to some gnarly bot logic to make this happen properly in all situations -- it's ugly and punishing however it would be done). What usually happens is that people leave the freq voluntarily and freqs naturally redistribute on their own.

4) Not reduce freqsize until all freqs are down to that size. This way, for example, if there is a three man turret out there, you can gather a three man hunt freq even if the freqsize should be two.

5) Leave as is. In the vast majority of situations, the way it works now is fine.



I see mine repping as a far bigger problem than a few man turrets that run when a single pilot chases them. Mine repping used to be done to a certain extent, but nothing like it is these days -- talk about the lamers that would get called out and hounded down. Turrets that mine rep as a style of play was something that virtually never occurred in the old days -- mining, yes; mine repping as a strategy, no.



Why do we see so much mine repping now? Mine repping is an almost riskless way to play. You can !bonus more reps. There are a bazillion greens to get more reps. 50 start bty. It is a very easy way to get a high ratio - no actual fighting involved!



I see mine repping as a bad game design since it is the only 'one shot kill' we have in Chaos -- should have none imo. It's easily avoided by vets, but is very bad for newbs -- and newbs is what the zone needs. One could argue that bursts are also one shot kills, but it's harder to kill someone from full nrg with the burst strength today (SVS was 550 per burst bullet; it's been 350 per burst bullet for a very long time now) -- it's more obvious to a newb how they died (many orange bullets!!!).



[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301417827' post='274144']

ok im a bit confused <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />

My apologies if i misqoted, it wasnt intentional. But i didnt keep logs and copy paste our discussion.

I said 'there will never be changes made to turrets. I think you need to reduce turrets to 2 ppl (pilot and 1 gunner)', and you said 'not a chance. chaos has always had large turrets and always will'

Sounds remotely similar to me <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' /> never be changes made to turrets and chaos has always had large turrets and always will





We're not dealing with the same 80-100ppl zones anymore. And probably never will. Incidentally, the original zone never had bonuses, or flags, or any of the other things that were added MUCH later. I wasnt a regular player of chaos, but i dont remember those being part of the zone.



You wanted to hear what i thought, and i told you.

Post the rest of our discussion too if you want. I also asked about when we might see some of these ideas being implemented, and when the announcement would be (after you told me thered be an announcement prior to any changes). I cant remember your exact wording, but you told me not to 'badger' you and i seem to remember some veiled comment along the lines of i might not like the outcome ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> Your post of the logs will clarify if need be <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Youre asking for our feedback and ideas, i dont see why we cant ask about a timeframe. You said it was still undecided and also that any changes will only be made at a reset (which im sure most of us already aware of anyway). Thats fine. But when will there be a decision ?

And its not like anything has to be PERMANENT <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> You can still try out various ideas to see how it goes <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Obviously other changes were tried out to varying degrees of acceptance.

[/quote]

You never said "there will never be changes made to turrets" or anything similar in our conversation - perhaps you thought it but did not state it. The choice between "[color="#1C2837"]chaos has always had large turrets and always will" and "no changes to turrets ever" is a false dichotomy -- there are many more possibilities. If you or anyone else is interested in learning more about what's possible, you can start here: [/color][url="http://www.minegoboom.com/server/ssos.html"]http://www.minegoboo...erver/ssos.html[/url] I'm of course willing to listen to any ideas on the topic.



[color="#1C2837"]I have many private conversations with people in the zone and out -- I value creativity, clarity of thought and the ability to express them coherently/concisely and also the ability to listen (just to name a few). I don't value being asked the same question multiple times when I've already answered it. You can ask about a timeframe, but if the answer is 'undecided' then that's the answer. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> If you ask "when" and I say "undecided" and then you say "yes, but WHEN?" -- that's badgering to me. [/color][color="#1C2837"]And my further comment was not veiled in any way -- I said it would backfire. If you (or anyone) tries to get more info from me by doing that, you'll probably get less (via private conversation at least). Overall our conversation was a good one I think.[/color]



[color="#1C2837"]Also, fyi I did not say changes "only at a reset" I said "I usually do major changes at a reset" -- my positions are rarely absolute (ok so limiting turret size is an absolute <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />) and I'm always willing to listen to specific, coherent, concrete, and feasible ideas.[/color]

[color="#1C2837"]Thank you for the comment on "[/color]has to be PERMANENT" -- that's always my position.



--hallu

[Yupa]

Back in the day in Chaos freqs weren't totally equal. It was fine. Of course they didn't have such a small allowed number of players either.

[PoLiX]

Maybe have the freq size not be lowered until population lowers, and all freqs of that size are gone.



We know Gad purposely multi-clients to pad the population so he can get an extra person on his frequency. Then they disconnect, freq sizes go down, and there is no chance of another large freq working against him. There are occasionally other turrets of course, but I'm sure he is the main one everyone is talkin about.



Definately worth a thought.

[Jazz]

[quote name='PoLiX' timestamp='1301454769' post='274162']

Maybe have the freq size not be lowered until population lowers, and all freqs of that size are gone.



We know Gad purposely multi-clients to pad the population so he can get an extra person on his frequency. Then they disconnect, freq sizes go down, and there is no chance of another large freq working against him. There are occasionally other turrets of course, but I'm sure he is the main one everyone is talkin about.



Definately worth a thought.

[/quote]



wait ... you know that he intentionally multi-clients sometimes ? just to temporarily increase freq size for his turrret ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' /> i wouldnt be surprised if he reaches those new heights of lameness

[hallucination]

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301508636' post='274170']

[quote name='PoLiX' timestamp='1301454769' post='274162']

Maybe have the freq size not be lowered until population lowers, and all freqs of that size are gone.



We know Gad purposely multi-clients to pad the population so he can get an extra person on his frequency. Then they disconnect, freq sizes go down, and there is no chance of another large freq working against him. There are occasionally other turrets of course, but I'm sure he is the main one everyone is talkin about.



Definately worth a thought.

[/quote]



wait ... you know that he intentionally multi-clients sometimes ? just to temporarily increase freq size for his turrret ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' /> i wouldnt be surprised if he reaches those new heights of lameness

[/quote]

Yes I've also seen him do this. Frankly, it's not ok - the "two machine" rule covers it, but I'm working on a reworded version of the rule to clarify for those that are are confused by the concept that using two or more instances/machines is cheating/not allowed. FYI I have upon rare occasions given temporary permission for people to do whacky things while scores were down (i.e. not affect Reset Winners).



Gad has also brought in those instances (usually with Turkey in the name somewhere) and killed them repeatedly at times -- one time with permission while scores were down, but more than once after that while scores were up (i.e. without permission). I told him to stop (DUH!), and now I see that he did it again a couple of times a few days ago probably while he was doing his freq size increasing trick. Opinions on what should be done about that?



--hallu

[Jazz]

[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301512243' post='274173']

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301508636' post='274170']

[quote name='PoLiX' timestamp='1301454769' post='274162']

Maybe have the freq size not be lowered until population lowers, and all freqs of that size are gone.



We know Gad purposely multi-clients to pad the population so he can get an extra person on his frequency. Then they disconnect, freq sizes go down, and there is no chance of another large freq working against him. There are occasionally other turrets of course, but I'm sure he is the main one everyone is talkin about.



Definately worth a thought.

[/quote]



wait ... you know that he intentionally multi-clients sometimes ? just to temporarily increase freq size for his turrret ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> i wouldnt be surprised if he reaches those new heights of lameness

[/quote]

Yes I've also seen him do this. Frankly, it's not ok - the "two machine" rule covers it, but I'm working on a reworded version of the rule to clarify for those that are are confused by the concept that using two or more instances/machines is cheating/not allowed. FYI I have upon rare occasions given temporary permission for people to do whacky things while scores were down (i.e. not affect Reset Winners).



Gad has also brought in those instances (usually with Turkey in the name somewhere) and killed them repeatedly at times -- one time with permission while scores were down, but more than once after that while scores were up (i.e. without permission). I told him to stop (DUH!), and now I see that he did it again a couple of times a few days ago probably while he was doing his freq size increasing trick. Opinions on what should be done about that?



--hallu

[/quote]





Off-hand, id say that this gives you ample reason to ignore ANY of his complaints/whining ..... <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

I mean seriously ..... someone THAT lame who does pretty much everything he can to be unsporting ..... ? And now hes whining just because i post his lame turrets coords so he cant use his weak 'tactics' and then run off to hide ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tease.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />





Anyway, im sure there are a few others who might even try it too <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> , but i dont really know how youd be able to stop that kind of unsporting attitude short of kicking them.

Is there some way to detect a players IP and automatically allow it to only be able to login with 1 account at any given time from that address ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />





And i already told you what i thought might help with turrets now that zones are always so small anyway <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ..... 2-man turrets (pilot and 1 gunner) <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' />

But yeah, i know that might not be a popular idea <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Capefire]

[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301512243' post='274173']

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301508636' post='274170']

[quote name='PoLiX' timestamp='1301454769' post='274162']

Maybe have the freq size not be lowered until population lowers, and all freqs of that size are gone.



We know Gad purposely multi-clients to pad the population so he can get an extra person on his frequency. Then they disconnect, freq sizes go down, and there is no chance of another large freq working against him. There are occasionally other turrets of course, but I'm sure he is the main one everyone is talkin about.



Definately worth a thought.

[/quote]



wait ... you know that he intentionally multi-clients sometimes ? just to temporarily increase freq size for his turrret ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' /> i wouldnt be surprised if he reaches those new heights of lameness

[/quote]

Yes I've also seen him do this. Frankly, it's not ok - the "two machine" rule covers it, but I'm working on a reworded version of the rule to clarify for those that are are confused by the concept that using two or more instances/machines is cheating/not allowed. FYI I have upon rare occasions given temporary permission for people to do whacky things while scores were down (i.e. not affect Reset Winners).



Gad has also brought in those instances (usually with Turkey in the name somewhere) and killed them repeatedly at times -- one time with permission while scores were down, but more than once after that while scores were up (i.e. without permission). I told him to stop (DUH!), and now I see that he did it again a couple of times a few days ago probably while he was doing his freq size increasing trick. Opinions on what should be done about that?



--hallu

[/quote]



We should rename this Zone, HALLU'S ZONE or The HATE GAD ZONE, smh, im sure he only did it because someone wanted to gun, not for any other reasons.

[Gadianton]

Letting some one gun is a sin don't you know.

[Jazz]

If it becomes the 'Hate Gad Zone', then the only person to blame is Gadianton himself. He brings it on himself.



Hes whining because he cant use lame tactics all night and run away to hide now that ppl can find him <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> Oh the tragedy <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mega_shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':happy:' />