How Can We *MAKE* Someone Play This Game?

[Nude For Satan]

Why would a hunter attack a newb? A hunter chases either a high bounty, a laming vet, a turret, or someone who's pissing them off.



A half-hour old player isn't going to fit those categories.



...





Anyway, kids, on AI bots, and yes I'd already suggested they could be exploited (probably in ways we haven't even thought of yet, like extreme bot-sex), well clearly killing a bot (or being killed by one) would be excluded from stats, and they wouldn't count towards freq sizing either. Something like that. And I maintain that they should be only in either a newb arena or a newd sector of the pub arena, inaccessible to the madding crowd.

[Jazz]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302111305' post='274467']

How is a hunter gunning a newbie down 50-1 any different then me mine reping them. o ya i remember. A hunter will yell and scream in pub chat that the newbie is a %$@$# looser and should go kill them self. Some times i actually let a newbie gun an me and he gets a rush of getting a few kills. I don't see hunters being some kind generous group helping out newbies so get off your high horse.



[quote name='Caerbannog' timestamp='1302103573' post='274462']

There's a built in problem with a single newbie scenario though. Pretty much no one in the zone can play with them without killing them 50:1 if they want to.

[/quote]

That's why i suggested building 20-30 dumb bots for the newbies to have something to shoot at. If i let the newbie kill me Hallu will accuse me of gifting and BAN me and remove the 2,000 bounty kill from the newbies record. Then the newbie would be REALLY confused.

[/quote]





[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1302113783' post='274470']

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302111305' post='274467']

If i let the newbie kill me Hallu will accuse me of gifting and BAN me and remove the 2,000 bounty kill from the newbies record.

[/quote]



Another quiz for you all while waiting for Priit to finish fixing up the biller. What is factually inaccurate in the above statement? Extra credit bonus question: what part of this statement has a greater than 99% chance of being factually inaccurate and why? Double bonus points for correcting all grammatical and spelling errors in the above sentence .



--hallu

[/quote]



The whole thing sounds like a bunch of bullshit. But that seems typical.

Hes complained about EVERYTHING possible, not for the benefit of the zone, but because he wants any advantage that helps his 'style'. He doesnt provide any info to backup any of his claims at all. But that doesnt seem to matter. So far you already CAVED IN Hallu JUST because Gad and the people that normally turret him complained about the mines lasting 1minute instead of 2mins. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> . So im guessing that facts or anything to back up claims is irrelevant anyway.



Who else had a problem with it ? ......... anyone besides the mine-reppers ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />

You said the only non-Gadturret gunner who said anything was Blitz ... ok fine .... but as we mentioned in spec, hes also been on there. So Gad recruits his gunners to complain because they now have to waste energy replacing minestacks more frequently, and they cant leave stacks in the main playing area while they run to hide in less busy parts of the zone.

if there were others complaining, id be curious to know who they are ..... ? Maybe then it wont seem like you caved in just because Gad and his gunners were whining and there was actually more wider support <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pardon:' />



As an EXPERIMENT to see if it helped new ppl ? ...... there were TWO ? And im sure theyd get mine repped by Gad just to improve stats. So who did you help ?

[Gadianton]

I'm guessing if hallu cut the EMP bomb damage in 1/2 or if he didn't allow Hunters to use rockets you would have people on the form complaining because it hurts there play style...... thats all i'm doing. Parts of the game that i use are being messed with. You don't have to have an IQ of 200 to see why i and other people who LIKE mines and who like to use bonus points would be unhappy with the recent changes.

[Nude For Satan]

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1302123803' post='274480']So far you already CAVED IN Hallu JUST because Gad and the people that normally turret him complained about the mines lasting 1minute instead of 2mins. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' /> . So im guessing that facts or anything to back up claims is irrelevant anyway.[/quote]



Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Hallu said the 1m was becoming 2m again because it didn't seem to pan out as much of an improvement. Pros and cons of the change were discussed ad nauseum, from sensible to screaming, but ... yeah ... I guess he just "caved in". <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Gadianton]

I just logged into the zone and wow the Mines are now 2 minutes. What a shocker the News file didn't let people know that the Mine Time changed....

[Nude For Satan]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302126590' post='274487']

I just logged into the zone and wow the Mines are now 2 minutes. What a shocker the News file didn't let people know that the Mine Time changed....

[/quote]



I was in there an hour ago and they were still 1 minute. Must just have happened. Given not even ?chat works while the biller is down, a new news.txt is possibly not the first priority. I'm sure it will be there soon enough.

[Cheese]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302093500' post='274457']

Cheese im very interested. do you have a link where i can learn more. website? forum?

[/quote]



unfortunately, i dont have a site, and the mgb forums have been down for about a week now

[Jazz]

[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1302125336' post='274483']

[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1302123803' post='274480']So far you already CAVED IN Hallu JUST because Gad and the people that normally turret him complained about the mines lasting 1minute instead of 2mins. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pardon:' /> . So im guessing that facts or anything to back up claims is irrelevant anyway.[/quote]



Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Hallu said the 1m was becoming 2m again because it didn't seem to pan out as much of an improvement. Pros and cons of the change were discussed ad nauseum, from sensible to screaming, but ... yeah ... I guess he just "caved in". <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]





AMAZINGLY, the 'experiment' was deemed inconclusive, and it was decided to change it back .... juuusst coincidentally, right after Gad and his turret gunners whined. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Nope ..... no CAVING IN there ..... ALLLL coincidence im sure <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />







Actually i added quite abit to the discussion as you well know NFS <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> , in fact i provided alot of the PROS and CONS and i asked if others had any to add to the DISCUSSION ..... none of which was provided by Gad (as i mentioned IN my posts and as i asked FOR again in those same posts...).

Now what i just asked was WHO complained (provided their 'vote' and reasoning) and asked for it to be changed back ? And WHAT was the info/reasoning ? Ive asked in TWO threads now .....

If this was an experiment ... then thats part of the RESULTS ....... So, Id like to know.

Otherwise it DOES look like caving in.



And i also asked WHO IT HELPED .... was it 'new people'? .... of whom hallu said there were TWO. Not exactly much data to make any worthwhile conclusion, but whatever.

It certainly didnt seem like it HURT new people. But wait, did it have the unforseen benefit of making it more challenging to be a mine repper, and harder to minestack then hide ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> ....... No we wouldnt want THAT <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> *sarcasm*, hurting those poor guys who try SO hard to be lame in the now depleted Chaos zone. Instead lets just ignore the benefits it may have for the avg players (which would include new ppl and regulars) since theyre not whining ....... <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Sometimes a trial for one thing has other unexpected results (ex: Viagara). In this instance it was making things more difficult for the mine reppers ......... hmmmmm you know .. the guys that were whining to hallu and basically had NOTHING to back any of their claims besides " <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sorry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='orry:' /> YOURE ALL BEING MEEEAN ...AND MAKING IT HARDER FOR ME TO BE A LAMER!! "

........... but look <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> .... IT WORKS !! <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Good plan <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />





So i guess this experiment did result in a conclusion ..... just not what we expected <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pardon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />

And the results are evident in the forums <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />





PS: i love emoticons <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drinks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':drinks:' />

[Nude For Satan]

Quote:AMAZINGLY, the 'experiment' was deemed inconclusive, and it was decided to change it back .... juuusst coincidentally, right after Gad and his turret gunners whined.

Nope ..... no CAVING IN there ..... ALLLL coincidence im sure

No, no caving in. Experiment run course, evaluated, acted upon. The reset finished at the same time it was expected to, it wasn't brought forward or delayed to accommodate anything. When it came about, Hallu made the change. Why are you so intent on demanding that an action NOT taken against players you think are lame, is caving in? It seems that, in the same way that Gad claims changes have been made to hurt specifically him, you are claiming that a change has been made to specifically NOT hurt him. At this point the question must asked: would you like to see things happen that help the zone, or things happen that hurt play-style you personally don't like?



Mine-repping is not illegal and not some new superweapon. Its been around for ages. Its not to be outlawed. Sure, its easier in this day and age to lamely pwn with its use, so maybe some scaling adjustments are necessary. But no more than that.

Quote:Actually i added quite abit to the discussion as you well know NFS , in fact i provided alot of the PROS and CONS and i asked if others had any to add to the DISCUSSION ..... none of which was provided by Gad (as i mentioned IN my posts and as i asked FOR again in those same posts...).

Yes, agreed. I'm not claiming you did not contribute. I find value in your comments quite a lot, even if I don't always agree with them. You'll note that I express myself very candidly, regardless of whether I have just agreed or disagreed with your previous point. I don't just take sides, I deal with everything on its individual merits. I'll agree when I agree, and I'll disagree when I don't agree. Its surprising how rare that is!



What I'm claiming is you're wrong in alleging a "cave-in", and I am concerned that more times you stubbornly scream it out, the more opportunity there is for it to transmute into disinformation. Every time you shout something that's wrong, expect someone to tell you its wrong.

Quote:Now what i just asked was WHO complained (provided their 'vote' and reasoning) and asked for it to be changed back ? And WHAT was the info/reasoning ? Ive asked in TWO threads now .....

If this was an experiment ... then thats part of the RESULTS ....... So, Id like to know.

Otherwise it DOES look like caving in.



And i also asked WHO IT HELPED .... was it 'new people'? .... of whom hallu said there were TWO. Not exactly much data to make any worthwhile conclusion, but whatever.

It certainly didnt seem like it HURT new people. But wait, did it have the unforseen benefit of making it more challenging to be a mine repper, and harder to minestack then hide ? ....... No we wouldnt want THAT *sarcasm*, hurting those poor guys who try SO hard to be lame in the now depleted Chaos zone. Instead lets just ignore the benefits it may have for the avg players (which would include new ppl and regulars)

This is more purely Hallu's side of things, but I have seen a lot of negative feedback from Gad and folk who generally can be seen gunning on Gad. I've not seen anyone totally pro-1 minute mines. I have not seen anyone overly helped or hurt by the change. I killed a bountied up poo bucket with a mine rep yesterday, man that was sweet <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dirol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

The only other person I've seen make a negative comment about the 1-minute timer, is me.

Overall, the results seem inconclusive. So, at the end of the test period, it would make sense to reset it to how it was before.

If we dismiss Gad & co's opposition as pure whining - and ignore it, then we are left with a 0 for, 0 against result. A tie. So it fails to make the cut.

Quote:... since theyre not whining .......

Well ... they weren't whining <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pardon:' />

Quote:Sometimes a trial for one thing has other unexpected results (ex: Viagara).

Firstly, that's a waterfall.

Quote:In this instance it was making things more difficult for the mine reppers ......... hmmmmm you know .. the guys that were whining to hallu and basically had NOTHING to back any of their claims besides " YOURE ALL BEING MEEEAN ...AND MAKING IT HARDER FOR ME TO BE A LAMER!! "

........... but look .... IT WORKS !!

Good plan

Honestly, if no-one else seems to think it helped them feel any safer or better defended against those lamers, then ... who cares?

Quote:PS: i love emoticons

I copy pasted your post into a text file to read because of the number of smilies <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blum.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />

[Jazz]

WHAT THE HELL !! <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' /> MY EMOTES !!!





[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1302140419' post='274498']

No, no caving in. Experiment run course, evaluated, acted upon. The reset finished at the same time it was expected to, it wasn't brought forward or delayed to accommodate anything. When it came about, Hallu made the change. Why are you so intent on demanding that an action NOT taken against players you think are lame, is caving in? It seems that, in the same way that Gad claims changes have been made to hurt specifically him, you are claiming that a change has been made to specifically NOT hurt him. At this point the question must asked: would you like to see things happen that help the zone, or things happen that hurt play-style you personally don't like?

[/quote]





So how long was this ‘experiment’ going on for ? And as I already asked ….. what IS the data that was evaluated and what were the findings ?

And NFS why are you talking about the RESET 'wasnt brought forward or delayed to accomodate anything' ?!?! That was never a question.

Do you actually KNOW if the experiment had 'run its course' ? The appearance is that the 'experiment' was ended at the EARLIEST convenient opportunity (i.e. nearest reset .... "coincidentally" within days of Gads whining). And with no information, claiming the 'experiment had run its course' as the convenient justification for this ending still seems alot like caving in .....



If youre claiming to run it as an experiment, then publish your findings LIKE you would with an experiment <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

No information was given about the changes BEFORE it occurred (so that results weren’t contaminated?), at least expand on the info AFTER the experiment by providing some answers so we can see what can be learned from the experiment.

You can learn a lot from FAILED experiments as well as SUCCESSFUL ones ….. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



NFS ….. lol <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> im pretty sure im not the only person who thinks his playing ‘stlye’ is lame … but ok <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> You can assume that its just MY opinion ALONE if youd like. As always the silent majority will remain … silent <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> So we wont really know which way they go do we ?



And as you’ve already agreed, ive made some effort to contribute to these forums. Hopefully it helps the zone. Maybe it affects play-styles that I don’t personally like. Does that mean they are mutually exclusive ?!?!? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />





I can make the claim that its ‘CAVING IN’ because the ONLY info I HAVE to go on so far is that “GAD CRIES = SETTINGS CHANGED BACK ASAP”

And yes …. I CAN claim that a change was made to specifically NOT hurt Gad. Why ? Because as mentioned, ‘Gad and his gunners complain that it hurts them, and settings were changed’.

But feel free to tell me im wrong ….. I don’t mind. Just tell me why <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Same way I will ALSO agree or disagree with points, but i at least will state my reasons ….. because then there can be some clarification. Which is where the info I requested earlier comes in.





[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1302140419' post='274498']

Mine-repping is not illegal and not some new superweapon. Its been around for ages. Its not to be outlawed. Sure, its easier in this day and age to lamely pwn with its use, so maybe some scaling adjustments are necessary. But no more than that.

[/quote]



Ummmmm ….. I don’t remember EVER saying it should be illegal and outlawed. So please show me where ive said this. Ive said I think it’s a lame tactic.

If youre going to claim IM trying 'disinformation' (despite providing references and reasoning with my posts) then you should at least show me where i said that ..... ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />





[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1302140419' post='274498']

This is more purely Hallu's side of things, but I have seen a lot of negative feedback from Gad and folk who generally can be seen gunning on Gad. I've not seen anyone totally pro-1 minute mines. I have not seen anyone overly helped or hurt by the change. I killed a bountied up poo bucket with a mine rep yesterday, man that was sweet <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dirol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='8)' />

The only other person I've seen make a negative comment about the 1-minute timer, is me.

Overall, the results seem inconclusive. So, at the end of the test period, it would make sense to reset it to how it was before.

If we dismiss Gad & co's opposition as pure whining - and ignore it, then we are left with a 0 for, 0 against result. A tie. So it fails to make the cut.

[/quote]



Errr NFS …. The only other person that complained about the 1min mines was you ? …. Was this before or after you mine-repped ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> LOL. If you go back and read my post, it wasn’t about hurting GAD, it was about finding a ‘scaling adjustment’ (as you called it), the 1min mines may not have started as this but WERE a scaling adjustment ….. to reflect the zone as it is now. SMALL, with very FEW players. Ive explained how in other posts.



As stated before, ‘inconclusive’? At helping new people ? You mean those TWO people who turreted hallu while Gad was there (one time I saw them turreting), but played on their own while no one was mine repping (again I saw them once).

Was it also inconclusive as a ‘scaling adjustment’ too ? Ive posted PROs and CONs with regard to that. Which part of that was inclonclusive ? I don’t remember seeing any responses to that. I’ll go recheck later.



And Gad&Cos whining isn’t being dismissed, I asked him to provide info too. Which he conveniently hasn’t. However it seems my OWN questions ARE being dismissed <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> So apparently its not information thats sought, but non-substantiated whining.

You asked ME if im trying to help the zone, or hurt a playing style …..go back and read my posts, ive ALREADY provided answers in the form of pros and cons as to why it would help the zone and what type of styles it would probably affect and HOW. So ask Gad the same question….. “At this point the question must asked: would you like to see things happen that help the zone, or things happen that hurt play-style you personally don't like?” (hunters and general melee fighters).





[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1302140419' post='274498']

Honestly, if no-one else seems to think it helped them feel any safer or better defended against those lamers, then ... who cares?

[/quote]



Is that what they actually SAID, or what youre assuming ? Did you ask ? How many chaos players read the forums regularly and followed the discussion to consider the positions ?

Samy seems to think it DID help. Chances are there are others who believe the same. But he says he would still prefer no changes being made. Which is totally fine. He noticed a difference, but just doesnt think any changes should be made to certain settings from the original days.

Ideally that would be great ..... if it was still the old days with LOTS of players.

[Nude For Satan]

Lets hope all this manual quoting works (people are gonna start talking about us soon, Jazz):

Quote:So how long was this ‘experiment’ going on for ?

Quote:And NFS why are you talking about the RESET 'wasnt brought forward or delayed to accomodate anything' ?!?!

You'd have to ask Hallu what his intended sample period was. Clearly a reset came around and he's looked at the feedback and found there to be no noticeable advantage to continue on with the change. This reminds me a little of the 3-mine max test, too (during Halloween reset last year). When its reset time, and the experiment has yielded no pressing argument to retain the change, its rolled back. A change should never be retained if is no sufficient level of merit in doing so. I quoted resets because that's the time to conclude a test. I'm just confused that you're asking why a change that failed to bring sufficient support was rolled back at the most optimum time for rolling it back.

Quote:And as I already asked ….. what IS the data that was evaluated and what were the findings ?

Quote:If youre claiming to run it as an experiment, then publish your findings LIKE you would with an experiment

Quote: at least expand on the info AFTER the experiment by providing some answers so we can see what can be learned from the experiment.

You can learn a lot from FAILED experiments as well as SUCCESSFUL ones …..

I think Hallu had already answered this, and he knows more about it than me, but the results apparently were : Benefit level insufficient to warrant implementation. Detriment level insufficient to exclude implementation. Feedback: some opposition, minimal support. All feedback (for and against) somewhat biased toward personal preference. ( Samgunn Jav ambushes and then runs, dropping mines behind him - 1 minute mines are perfect for his style of play <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='8)' /> ). Conclusion: not worth changing. <--- this is my take on it, no-one else's. And I'm not trying to be a prick about it. I just thought this kind of went without saying. Maybe I'm wrong.

Its a pretty basic experiment. I just expanded findings there to make them a larger paragraph than really is required. In reality, findings are: "nah, didn't do nuffin' much".

Quote:Do you actually KNOW if the experiment had 'run its course' ? The appearance is that the 'experiment' was ended at the EARLIEST convenient opportunity (i.e. nearest reset .... "coincidentally" within days of Gads whining). And with no information, claiming the 'experiment had run its course' as the convenient justification for this ending still seems alot like caving in .....

Well I sure can't argue with perspective! If it "seems" like caving in, to you, then it seems like caving in, to you. I admit you are correct and it does, definitely, seem to you as though its caving in.

Quote:No information was given about the changes BEFORE it occurred (so that results weren’t contaminated?),

That's the information I have.

Quote:NFS ….. lol im pretty sure im not the only person who thinks his playing ‘stlye’ is lame … but ok You can assume that its just MY opinion ALONE if youd like. As always the silent majority will remain … silent So we wont really know which way they go do we ?

I agree with you. I think his playing style is lame. Which makes it pretty hard for your accusation - that I believe its your opinion alone - to hold up, doesn't it? There may very well have been other people around who liked the 1-minute mine timer. They didn't comment, but they might have felt this way without commenting, or even knowing it was up for comment. Maybe I should have PM'd a few people and got their votes, but not from Gad's troupe. Lemme see, I'll ask A Thai Stick, Turbotron, Skiz, Dr Fat Finger, ... ok that's a smart-arse comment but I guess I'm just making a point.

Quote:And as you’ve already agreed, ive made some effort to contribute to these forums. Hopefully it helps the zone. Maybe it affects play-styles that I don’t personally like. Does that mean they are mutually exclusive ?!?!?

I totally agree. And yes, agreed, its not mutually exclusive.

Quote:I can make the claim that its ‘CAVING IN’ because the ONLY info I HAVE to go on so far is that “GAD CRIES = SETTINGS CHANGED BACK ASAP”

And yes …. I CAN claim that a change was made to specifically NOT hurt Gad. Why ? Because as mentioned, ‘Gad and his gunners complain that it hurts them, and settings were changed’.

But feel free to tell me im wrong ….. I don’t mind. Just tell me why

Quote:Same way I will ALSO agree or disagree with points, but i at least will state my reasons ….. because then there can be some clarification. Which is where the info I requested earlier comes in.

Well, yes, you are wrong. Told you why up above, in this post. And in the post before that. And in the post before that. Etc. What the hell is this info you keep asking for. The reasons have been given in almost every post. NO CLEAR BENEFIT. I keep visualising The Simpsons "I though I told you to get rid of those sideburns".

Quote:

Quote:Nude For Satan, on 07 April 2011 - 11:40 AM, said:

Mine-repping is not illegal and not some new superweapon. Its been around for ages. Its not to be outlawed. Sure, its easier in this day and age to lamely pwn with its use, so maybe some scaling adjustments are necessary. But no more than that.

Ummmmm ….. I don’t remember EVER saying it should be illegal and outlawed. So please show me where ive said this. Ive said I think it’s a lame tactic.

If you're going to claim IM trying 'disinformation' (despite providing references and reasoning with my posts) then you should at least show me where i said that ..... ?

I didn't say you think it should be. I said that's its not. This was a comment based on the changing environment of the zone and how what was simply "somewhat lame" in early years is now "very lame" more recently. A test was made. It didn't convince anyone to keep it on. It is rolled back.

You continue to express a major disappointment that something which failed testing is not to be introduced regardless? You seem to feel very strongly that mine-repping is lame enough that an unsupported test settings change should be implemented.

Quote:

Quote:Nude For Satan, on 07 April 2011 - 11:40 AM, said:

This is more purely Hallu's side of things, but I have seen a lot of negative feedback from Gad and folk who generally can be seen gunning on Gad. I've not seen anyone totally pro-1 minute mines. I have not seen anyone overly helped or hurt by the change. I killed a bountied up poo bucket with a mine rep yesterday, man that was sweet

The only other person I've seen make a negative comment about the 1-minute timer, is me.

Overall, the results seem inconclusive. So, at the end of the test period, it would make sense to reset it to how it was before.

If we dismiss Gad & co's opposition as pure whining - and ignore it, then we are left with a 0 for, 0 against result. A tie. So it fails to make the cut.

Errr NFS …. The only other person that complained about the 1min mines was you ? …. Was this before or after you mine-repped ? LOL. If you go back and read my post, it wasn’t about hurting GAD, it was about finding a ‘scaling adjustment’ (as you called it), the 1min mines may not have started as this but WERE a scaling adjustment ….. to reflect the zone as it is now. SMALL, with very FEW players. Ive explained how in other posts.

Yes, I was the only other person that complained about the 1min mines. I stated that when I'm chasing a running opponent, they can crap mines in my path and regain them for re-use twice as quickly. Avoiding those mines to cause the runner to run out of mines is a response tactic now halved in value. I've said it forums and I've said it in-game.

Quote:As stated before, ‘inconclusive’? At helping new people ? You mean those TWO people who turreted hallu while Gad was there (one time I saw them turreting), but played on their own while no one was mine repping (again I saw them once).

Was it also inconclusive as a ‘scaling adjustment’ too ? Ive posted PROs and CONs with regard to that. Which part of that was inclonclusive ? I don’t remember seeing any responses to that. I’ll go recheck later.

Yes, inconclusive. You heard it here ninth, folks.

I must read back to find your Pros and Cons because I have overlooked them.

Quote:And Gad&Cos whining isn’t being dismissed, I asked him to provide info too. Which he conveniently hasn’t. However it seems my OWN questions ARE being dismissed So apparently its not information thats sought, but non-substantiated whining.

I'll read back to see what questions you put to Gad, but your questions haven't been dismissed. I've given you my responses myriad times. That's what this post, post #29 on this thread, post #24 on this thread, and many other posts on other threads are dedicated to.

Quote:You asked ME if im trying to help the zone, or hurt a playing style …..go back and read my posts, ive ALREADY provided answers in the form of pros and cons as to why it would help the zone and what type of styles it would probably affect and HOW. So ask Gad the same question….. “At this point the question must asked: would you like to see things happen that help the zone, or things happen that hurt play-style you personally don't like?” (hunters and general melee fighters).

I don't argue with this. Gad is welcome to respond to that.

Quote:

Quote:Nude For Satan, on 07 April 2011 - 11:40 AM, said:

Honestly, if no-one else seems to think it helped them feel any safer or better defended against those lamers, then ... who cares?

Is that what they actually SAID, or what youre assuming ? Did you ask ? How many chaos players read the forums regularly and followed the discussion to consider the positions ?

They are welcome to speak up, its been a topic of conversation in-game as well. You can also get out the vote if you want. This was a CHANGE to a setting. This has also been argued in in-game chat. Gad etc made their positions clear. I have seen three people that we could expand to try to frame as pro-1m-mine voters. Yourself, samgunn (who came on board after the fact but his vote is valid) and Surrey, who said, simply "lol @ Gad whining on the forums". If a heap of people now start to complain that the change was rolled back, that input would still be taken into account.

Quote:Samy seems to think it DID help. Chances are there are others who believe the same. But he says he would still prefer no changes being made. Which is totally fine. He noticed a difference, but just doesnt think any changes should be made to certain settings from the original days.

Ideally that would be great ..... if it was still the old days with LOTS of players.

Yes sam's input is also appreciated. He gave a good solid for and against mix. And I agree with you that ideally, no changes would be best, except that the environment (playing numbers) has changed enough that this isn't really so.



PS: lol its noon already. Do more of this please, its making my day fly by <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />

[Ethylene!]

You guys need to write less. I can't read that much nonsense at one time.

[Yupa]

I was just about to say.

[Nude For Satan]

[quote name='Yupa' timestamp='1302240567' post='274550']

I was just about to say.

[/quote]



Needs a mod to split and merge posts to get various topics better controlled.

[Ethylene!]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302124869' post='274482']

The zone is changing back to the way it used to be years ago and now I can't get bonuses, I'm not going to play anymore[/quote]





Hahahahah, classic

[Jazz]

[quote name='Ethylene!' timestamp='1302242421' post='274552']

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302124869' post='274482']

The zone is changing back to the way it used to be years ago and now I can't get bonuses, I'm not going to play anymore[/quote]



Hahahahah, classic

[/quote]



LOL <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />

oddly enough ... i didnt see him around last night late on when i got to the zone, and there were quite a few 3-4 ppl freqs playing. And that main area WAS pretty damn chaotic <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

And i have to admit ... after mostly seeing Gads lame turret that runs away from a 4on1, when Fong didnt run, it was kind of scary seeing all those blue bombs heading at me. I had to run away more <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='8)' />